Sarah recently moved to Southeast Asia as a church planter with her husband of nearly 16 years, Sam, and their 3 amazing children (ages 13, 11 and 4). She is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist who hosts a podcast. They also welcomed a new member of the family into their home a few weeks ago...an adorable and fluffy puppy! I have changed their names and won’t be showing any pictures of their faces to protect their ministry, but I think you’ll love getting to know “Sarah” through her voice and perspective.
Here, we talk about cultural transitions, her kids’ favorite food find in Southeast Asia, arranged marriages, mental health, and at one point during the zoom call, I got chills.
You all moved to Southeast Asia right before COVID shook the world and spent most of the year in a very strict quarantine to your apartment! I’m sure nothing could prepare you for that, but I do remember you going through some really helpful cultural transition training before you moved. Can you share more about that?
We went through this training together with our kids in Colorado...and you know, no training ever fully prepares you but I’m so grateful it is available. In November, Sam and I just hit this really dark slump and we had no idea what was going on. We both had this fatigue, and it felt different than the expected fatigue of living in the city, being in lockdown, all of that. In the training, we were reminded of what was typical for the 1 year mark that we were approaching—and that is exactly what we were feeling. It was this, “What are we doing here? Why did we come here?” We just needed a break and it was refreshing to be reminded that it was normal to go through some of those emotions.
What are some of the biggest differences between the East and the West that you’ve experienced?
There has definitely been a loss of independence and certainty of where my voice will be accepted...my rights are more limited. If you’re familiar with the enneagram, I’m an 8 (very justice minded and I see things pretty black and white). But, we have to be very careful about what we say here. I hate that I have to use code and be discreet. Laws are constantly changing and there’s little accountability. It’s hard to know where I belong because I’m not a part of the US anymore and I’m not really a part of here; it’s just hard being a third culture adult. I was a minority in the US because I was born in Southeast Asia and I’m a minority here because of my faith. I am constantly reminding myself, “This world isn’t my home. It’s just not my home.” But, we do have peace. We know we’re supposed to be here. All of it is a reminder that we need the Lord.
We would love prayer for joy and especially for people to pray John 1:5 over us (The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.) It’s hard to explain in words, but there is a palpable spiritual heaviness we experience. We take that as a sign that the Lord has indeed called us here.
How have your kids been doing?
The kids are doing so great, I’m just blown away. There are moments they’re sad, you know, they miss their cousins...but overall they’re adjusting just fine. There’s like this supernatural grace over them.
What’s something they think is so cool about your city?
We’re unable to explore as much as we want because of the pandemic, but they love the little things like the milkshakes here. They’re amazing! If we order a milkshake, their faces just light up. We all love Pan Asian food. We’re totally a family of foodies, so we’ve been loving that. I just wish they could meet more kids here. That’s been hard in this year of lockdown.
Do you want to share about how you and Sam met?
Sure! So you know we had an arranged marriage, and the Lord just did radical things in the ways he saved both of us. He was raised in a non-Christian home and has his own amazing story. I was raised in a very legalistic, strict, Christian home...kind of a house where cultural Christianity trumped what Scripture said. Southeast Asian culture trumped what Scripture said. I didn’t know who Jesus was, because I wasn’t taught about Him. Then my parents divorced when I was a teenager and my dad left. The community we were a part of just sort of treated us like outcasts after that. It’s an honor/shame culture and I’ve worked through some of my bitterness about that. They didn’t know otherwise. So that all made me have a bad taste for Christianity all together. I honestly didn’t even like my faith. and used to pray to God, “Why did you make me an Southeast Asian woman, it’s so oppressive.”
When I went to college, I lived a completely different lifestyle but hid it from so many people—a lot of drinking, drugs...and then the Lord saved me around age 24. A friend invited me to a mission trip to Mexico. I didn’t even really know what a mission trip was. I thought it was just for people who were pastors or on the worship team...I just wanted to go to Mexico! So it was there that one of the pastors asked me to share my story. I was like, “What story??!” I knew how to hide, but I knew I didn’t want to play with God. I wasn’t going to just stand up there and pretend I had this amazing relationship with God when I knew I didn’t. So I asked my friend to write something up for me to read fast and get off the stage...and she did! But it was then that the Holy Spirit just got to me.
Wait...while you were on stage??
Yes! So I was up there and just had all these issues. I was a cutter (a form of self-injury), I never cried. I had been holding in so much. I was about to read the little script my friend had written and that’s when the Holy Spirit opened my eyes. I know this sounds crazy, but I remember...time just froze. God gave me these flashbacks of the life I was living and said, “I care for you, I accept you, you’re mine.” Immediately, it was like all these labels that I believed about myself, like sticky notes were on me or something, they just -whoosh- went away. Time came to present, and I just started weeping, on stage. I started talking about the life I was living and said, “But no more. He’s given me new life.” Ever since then, I’ve really understood God’s love for me. I didn’t know before then. I just really didn’t know.
Wow. Yeah. I just got chills.
It was powerful. And that brings me to how I met my husband! My mom had been pressuring me to get married—a lot of Southeast Asian women get married around 20 or 21. I was 24 and didn’t desire to get married, to be honest. I was career focused and I was scared of men...that’s really what it was. But when I came back from Mexico, I told my mom, “If God can change my life, I trust him to choose my husband for me.” My mom got on it. She called my Uncle and the community is so close-knit...I connected with “Sam” pretty quickly. We talked for a few weeks and we just knew. We didn’t even know what each other looked like! Our engagement was set before we even met. It was...a leap of faith! But it worked out.
Absolutely! So I’ve really enjoyed listening to your podcastand I’m curious to see what your favorite episodes to record have been so far.
I’ve really loved them all, but I think the one that needed to be shared was the one about grief. You know, because of this context here, grief is kind of a foreign concept. No one really knows how to grieve. The woman I interviewed gave really practical advice. That episode, and the infidelity ones, have really connected well to listeners.
Since you’re a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, could you share some misconceptions about mental health with us?
Therapy is really different here. The most common misconception is that mental health issues don’t exist, both with believers and non-believers. I had a friend’s husband tell me, “I don’t think depression is real. If people are not happy, they need to find something else to do.” It’s still a stigma and people are nervous to talk about it and go deep. In the West, people in my experience are a lot more open and willing to get help. Most of my experience is with trauma and DHS cases, and I love working with kids. I love giving them language for what’s going on with them. As a kid, I was always confused, being a third culture kid, and didn’t have anyone to talk to. So I think that’s why I have so much compassion for kids and women, especially.
What is one thing that you do daily that helps you stay connected to God and the mission you are called to
Having small conversations with the Lord throughout the day. You know, I’m a mom of 3 and we have a new puppy in the house now (!) so I’m not in the season of waking up early in the morning like I want to. So, I’m constantly talking to the Lord. He is so kind in these moments of irritability, or exhaustion, or whatever it is. I’m learning to be more obedient to submit to His voice instead of dismissing it. I’ve learned to take pauses.
What books are on your nightstand right now?
Ah, I love to read but I have not had a lot of time recently. I do listen to some audio books, but the book I always recommend to people is A Praying Life by Paul Miller. It’s so good. It changed my prayer life. On parenting, I love Paul Tripp (especially 14 Principles of Parenting) and Missional Motherhood by Gloria Furman.
Alright...we’ve got to end...but before we do, I’ve got to ask...how do you like your coffee?
Haha, I like coffee...the only way I cannot drink it is black. I have to have sugar and cream. I love cappuccinos, frappuccinos, all of that. As long as it has plenty of sugar and cream!
Thank you so much, Sarah! You’re incredible. It is an honor to partner with you and thank you for taking the time to be so open and letting us get to know you better. I’m just dying to come eat good food and continue good conversations in your part of the world with you!
Meet the Author!
Makenzie graduated from Wheaton College where she majored in Christian Ministry, Urban Studies, and Photography and somehow managed to apply all of her degrees to work in the real world! She has a passion for community development after years working in urban ministry in Chicago, non-profits in Austin, and has been on staff at CRBC since 2012. She loves being able to equip and serve the church through her role as Minister of Missions at CRBC which includes both local and global partnerships. Despite being the missions minister, she is quite the homebody. She is an avid Harry Potter fan, loves Oklahoma City, and is happiest when surrounded by friends, family, and her ADORABLE weenie dog, May.